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Robert Meislin's avatar

David. I so much enjoy your posts. I appreciate your humility and authenticity. I just loved STONER which was such an atmospheric and character driven tale. Loved RANGE and found it even better the second time I read it. Curious whether you had a chance to read Drew Boyd's INSIDE THE BOX which is the antidote to creativity creation thinking outside the box. Looking so much to reading your new book. Thanks for everything you publish as it brings happiness to me. Rob

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David Epstein's avatar

Robert, what a wonderful note. And a fellow Stoner-phile;) I think I may have been in tears on a plane when it ended. And, man, just thinking as a writer, some real mastery of craft there. I have an anniversary edition that includes letters Williams wrote to his agent, trying to convince her that the plot may seem boring, but the book itself is actually quite innovative, and that people might read it. He's sort of a mix of sheepish and confident. I love that it has so many readers now, but it also made me a bit sad that it seems like maybe he didn't find perhaps the agent or publisher at the time who were lit on fire by it. ...As to Boyd's book, I read a piece of it, and corresponded briefly with the authors about a point I found very interesting and wanted to follow up on.

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Shaun Williams's avatar

Whatever Robert said (Apologies for being terribly un literary) except that I've not read Stoner. Love David

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Curious Octopus's avatar

The worst advice I've ever received was "just focus on one thing" hahah. I wish I had read Range by then. But after I did, I felt really vindicated. I don't like re-reading, and Range is one of very few exceptions and well worth it. Looking forward to your new book. To me constraints are a bit like game rules. If there are no rules, you're not playing a game. And people love games, we're wired for games. So I think that's why we're also wired to stand up to the circumstances and play by the constraints and make the most of it.

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David Epstein's avatar

Ha! This is a great and very apt comment, and I'm so gratified to hear that the Range resonated. And you hit a nail on the head regarding games. In fact, right at the end of the book, when I'm kind of wrapping up some of the big ideas, I touch on games specifically, and the way that constraints provide the meaning in the activity. Eager for you to get a look!

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Curious Octopus's avatar

me too, now even more so! :-)

PS the comment 'focus on one thing' was regarding the research for my dissertation. While trying to follow that advice, I was really stuck in a plateau of not dissertation worthy mediocrity. I only got unstuck when I drew insights of my previous research before the PhD and connected two things that had never been connected before - classic Range case B-). The Range approach has since become my hidden superpower and your book gave me the language to both understand how it works for me in practice and also (!) how to sell it to funding agencies etc. But most importantly it brought me inner peace and sense of worth, curing me from feeling broken for not being a frog (I try to find collaborators who are) and from the embarrassment of not being an "expert" in any one thing. Bottom line is, I am positive that I'm still in academia today because of your book. So I'm definitely looking forward to finding where the next one will take me. THANK YOU

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Emily GreenPurpleFireDragon's avatar

One of my history professors used “triads” on exams: you had to pick 3 terms from (I think?) 4, and show how they were interconnected. There *was* no obvious interconnection at first glance, so it great fun writing and discovering interconnections as I went. The best exams ever.

And even before that I’d discovered a good exam is one you learn something from.

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Bridgitte Rodguez's avatar

Great interview. Look forward to reading the new book. Love that you’re friends with Isabel Allende— I read all her books through high school and college. And I really like your idea/master list technique. I do something similar, but not nearly as involved, though now I’m intrigued at making it more useful!

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David Epstein's avatar

Bridgitte, thanks for reading, and would love to hear about your version of the idea list!

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Emily GreenPurpleFireDragon's avatar

Finding new ideas from other people: I follow leads. Austin Kleon > David Epstein > Malcolm Gladwell > and while deciding to order Revenge of the Tipping Point, I saw Blink and said, this looks neat.

My own: they just come, from encounters between everything mixed inside me and something right in front of me. I call it sexual reproduction; asexual reproduction would just be a clone of the original thing.

And yes, boxes are effective. In 2019 I filled a calendar box every day with a drawing of something Japanese (it was a Hiroshige calendar) with a fountain pen. That is, copying a drawing. It was doable because I knew what to do and the box was small. And the task was open enough to allow space for me. I saw a rat one night at the train station, so I searched for a Japanese drawing of a rat. Or re-saw which of my books could be sources. Or saw patterns as drawings, writing as drawing.

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David Epstein's avatar

Emily, I love this little tale of the calendar. Unusual and beautiful. Thanks for sharing it.

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Rufus Williams's avatar

What's are the Youtube literary channels you enjoy? I have a few obvious mathematics ones I enjoy (3B1B, Numberphile, The Mathologer), and I've recently found a couple of great writers group friends, but I'm yet to run into literary channels. Your taste in most things seems pretty fantastic, or at least well aligned with mine, so I'm quietly optimistic to hear your suggestions.

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David Epstein's avatar

I appreciate the compliment! ...And on that note I shall disappoint you;) There's no particular channel I'm following, more searching works I'm interested in and seeing what comes up. This is how I came across Frank Delaney's "Re: Joyce" on Ulysses—which is just a podcast uploaded to YouTube, so could also listen to it as a podcast, but that's how I found it, and I loved it. I came across Fiction Beast while thinking about what makes Japanese literature unique. I did notice a few times when I was searching for someone trying to define the elements of postmodern literature, I came across TheBookchemist. It's just a PhD student talking into a camera, but I found some of his thoughts insightful. I came across Leaf by Leaf when curious about Infinite Jest. But really I'm searching the work, and will come upon, say, Jhumpa Lahiri talking about Italo Calvino, and get sucked in. So I'm afraid there's not really a channel I became devoted to (other than the Re: Joyce podcast, via YouTube). If you have any good ones, I'd love to hear!

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Rufus Williams's avatar

Thanks, that's an abundance of leads. I don't really have any of my own, and, honestly, I tend to enjoy the works themselves more than criticisms of them anyway. But having unexpectedly finally found a couple of kismet writers for a writers group, I'm open to the idea that I just haven't found the right place to hear critical analysis. I'll report back if I do find a place :)

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Daniel Gozo's avatar

Fascinating to listen to how you put your thoughts together and your process to get to see the finished product. The evolution from the first book....

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David Epstein's avatar

I'm kind of surprised by it each time myself. After my first book when I was asked in an interview for the first time how I wrote it, I asked my then-girlfriend, and she said: You went upstairs and came back two years later. Haha...(I also traveled a lot.) But it's a bit idiosyncratic and mysterious to me each time.

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James Marshall's avatar

This is insightful, thanks for sharing.

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David Epstein's avatar

Pleasure, thanks for reading James.

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William Murphy's avatar

Hey David 👋 loved this post. I always enjoy hearing about processes involved in your writing and how you manage to stay disciplined and focused through such an extended period of time! I'm delighted that the structure of the book really benefitted you for this one (you mentioned how it was completely new for you to write chapter 1 followed by chapter 2 etc. compared to a less structured approach for your 2 prior books.) Great to always be updating processes and trying new things whilst maintaining the core work principles involved in writing a book. I'm always struck by how much research and preparation goes into writing a book. I find it incredible really and can't wait for this release (despite my desperate tendency to leave great books on shelves!) How are you feeling about the 'promotion phase' of this book? Is it a drag or do you enjoy it? Probably a bit of both I guess. Best of luck with it all anyway.

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David Epstein's avatar

William! It is simply always a pleasure to see your thoughtful comments. ...And I consider myself warned that it may end up on a shelf for a good long time;) I for sure have a book buying problem. As in: do I REALLY need that thousand-page experimental fiction from Germany when I'm staring at an entire shelf of things I also impulse-bought but haven't read?? What I can say for myself is that I truly do peruse my own library, and sometimes something I bought years ago jumps out at me, and I read maybe a few pages that spark a thought, or maybe the entire thing. That's what happened with Stoner, which I mentioned in the Q&A. I must've bought that ...gosh, I don't even know when. In Ireland I think, and I haven't been there since maybe 2014 or 2015? And then it jumped out at me from my shelf last year. ...As far as the promotion phase, I'm of two minds about it. One the one had, as an introvert (not that I don't like talking to people—I love talking to people, I just need to recharge with some solitude), I'm always slightly trepidatious about shifting from thinking/learning mode into running-mouth-at-all-times mode. I accept that—if things go well—at some point I will struggle not to feel burned out. But that's preferable to things going poorly and me having too much solitude;) I think my prior experience can help me pace a little, but that is probably more than offset by the way that book marketing has changed, requiring (again, if things go well) an enormous number of interviews, particularly podcasts, many of which now must be done in person. So, it's a lot. And I mean, if that stuff materializes, it's an absolute gift. And I love talking about thinkings I'm interested in, and especially early on i learn a ton from the questions (because I have lost perspective on my own work at a certain point). I always feel bad for audiences who have to watch me speak early because I know I'll learn so much from those audiences and will improve months later. So I'm both excited, know a little more what to expect, and a bit nervous. On a personal side, I'm going to really enjoy some of the travel, but also going to miss time with my son, and I will certainly be thinking about that a lot, and bringing home Pokemon cards to let him know I'm thinking about him. (Again, this is all only if it goes well.) I'm also going to start doing some of my own videos in the new year. The traditional modes of book marketing just don't exist in the way they once did, and I'm curious if I can find a way to do videos that both I and an audience enjoys. I've been video shy in the past, but I'm committed to giving it a try. I don't expect to have it figured out so well right away, but I'm eager to experiment a bit and learn something new, and learn whether it's a fit for me.

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William Murphy's avatar

David, thanks for your detailed and considered response as always! Haha 'experimental fiction from Germany' sounds interesting! Whilst I'm on book categories - I recently heard about George Plimpton and his participatory journalism sports books, I picked up a few and have started 'Out of my league' (which is very short hence why I picked it to start) it seems really good and such a nice concept. Wonder have you read any of his work 🤔 that sounds cool re the book promotion but yeah it also sounds like a lot. I guess you just have to try and enjoy the ride (easier said than done) I know I really enjoyed the Range podcast interviews and they helped me understand the core philosophy of the book (Philosophy! I also recently impulse purchased a load of introductory Plato 🙈). That's nice about your son, hopefully he can understand and stay in touch through calls or whatever works. I like the videos ideas too - I'll definitely be checking them out. I find it does work as in the promotion phase does get me excited about the release of the book. Thanks for this and I look forward to following you through this phase.

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Roberto De Vido's avatar

Great post.

You asked, so here goes: a few years ago, I wrote about a bitterly cold night in Beijing in the late 1990s, when a stranger offered me what probably wasn't the *best* advice of my life, but was certainly top five. ;)

https://thejadedcynic.substack.com/p/the-jaded-cynic-april-6-2022-1111946

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